(We continue in this issue to present the more complete version of the Mother’s Talks on the Matrimandir than appeared as Appendix I of The New Way, Volumes 1&2. The period covered by these dialogues was from 31 December, 1969, to 17 January, 1970, eighteen days in all. The Talks reproduced in this issue are the final two.)
10 January, 1970
I have a letter from Paolo.
I am going to see him this afternoon.
I told you that I had seen the central building of Auroville…I have a plan. Would you be interested in seeing it?… There are some rolls there.
(The Mother unrolls the plan as she explains)
There will be twelve facets. And, at an equal distance from the centre, twelve columns. At the centre, on the ground my symbol, and at the centre of my symbol, there are four of Sri Aurobindo’s symbols, upright, forming a square, and on the square, a translucent globe (we don’t know yet in what material). And then when there is sunlight, from the roof the sun will fall in a ray onto it, – nowhere else, only there. When there is no sun, there will be electric spotlights which will send a ray (also ONE ray, not a diffused light) exactly onto it, onto this globe.
There are no doors, but…going deep down, one comes up again into the temple. One goes under the wall, and comes up again inside. It is another symbol. Everything is symbolic.
And then there are no furnishings, but, like here, there is probably first wood on the ground, then over the wood a thick ‘dunlop’ and over that a carpet. The colour must be chosen. Overall it will be white. I am not sure if the symbols of Sri Aurobindo will be white…I don’t think so. I did not see them in white, I saw them in an indefinable colour which was between gold and orange. A kind of colour like that. They will be upright. They will be carved in stone. And a globe which is not transparent but rather translucent. At the bottom (under the globe) there will be a light projected upward. From above there will be the ray of light which will fall onto the centre. And no other lights, no windows, an electric ventilator. And not a single piece of furniture, nothing. A place…for trying to find one’s consciousness.
Outside, it will be something like this…
(The Mother unrolls another plan)
We don’t know if the roof will be completely pointed or…very simple, very simple. It would hold about 200 people….
Well, Paolo’s letter?
Very sweet Mother, I saw Roger [the architect of Auroville] on Sunday. He came to my room and we had lunch together.
With love, I arranged some very beautiful flowers for You and for Roger. You were there with us. We spoke a lot. I felt Roger as a brother.
I told him that Auroville could not be born as any other city (problems of urbanism, sociologic, economic, and all that – later). The beginning must be ‘something else’. For this reason we must begin with the Centre. That Centre must be our lever, our fixed point, the thing in which we can find support in order to leap to the other side – because it is only on the other side that one can begin to understand what Auroville should be. And that Centre must be the form which manifests in matter the content that You can transmit to us on all the planes (even the occult). We should be simply the open and sincere instruments through which you can consolidate that.
And I told him how I felt the need to attain all of that by living the experience inwardly and all united – those from the East and those from the West – in a vast movement of love, because that is the only cement possible to build ‘something else’.
What he says is good.
…And the Centre can give us that love immediately because it is love for You!
I told him that in practical terms we could start with a moment of silence, all gathered together, and try to make a complete blank, and in that, with everyone’s aspiration, make the signs for the beginning descend. But all united and all together; especially those who are spiritually more advanced: the Indians.
Roger was in perfect agreement. He said that was really what had to be done.
(The Mother nods)
I will see Paolo this afternoon to give him this plan. Because that is what I saw. We will make it in white marble. Udar has said that he will go to find the marble, he knows the place.
The whole structure in white marble?
But Paolo said something to me which I feel is quite right. He said: we are going to build this Centre, we are going to put all our heart and our aspiration into it, into this Centre…
And through the years it will become more and more ‘charged’.
So this Centre must be the real thing. This temple should not be removed to build another, bigger one later.
I said that to reassure the people who think that something fantastic is needed. I said, ‘We begin with this, and then we will see…’ You understand? I said, ‘This Centre should be there until the town is completely built, and afterwards we will see…’ Afterwards no one will want to remove it! Because many were thinking of something ‘formidable’.
But he says that from the architectural point of view it is quite possible to extend the thing from the outside, without touching what has already been built.
Yes. Oh, it is quite possible.
Roger said to me, ‘And then, what will we do afterwards?’ I said, ‘Well, we will think about that later!’ It’s that! They don’t know that one must not think. Myself, I didn’t think about it at all, at all, at all – one day, I saw it like that, as I see you. And still now, it is so living, that it is enough for me to look and I see it. And what I saw, was the Centre, and the light falls on it, and then quite naturally while looking at it, I noticed, I said, ‘See, it is like that.’ But it was not thought, I did not think ‘twelve columns and then twelve facets and then…’ I did not think all that. I saw.
It is like these symbols of Sri Aurobindo…when I am speaking of the Centre, I still see four symbols of Sri Aurobindo, which support each other at their corners, like that, and this colour, a strange colour…I don’t know where one could find that. It is an orange-tinted gold, very warm. And it is the only colour in the place, all the rest is white, and the globe is translucent.
Paolo said that he would go immediately to inquire in Italy, at Murano, the place where they make big crystals to find out what size globe can be made. For example one of 30cm in crystal.
The exact measurement is on the plan, it must be marked.
There is a big crystal factory there.
Oh! They make marvellous things there…. Isn’t it marked, the size of the globe?
It can be hollow. It need not be solid, so that it is not too heavy.
This tunnel entrance…. One will enter at a dozen metres or so from the wall, and at the foot of the urn. It will be the urn which will indicate the place of descent. I must choose exactly from which side…and then, it is possible that later, the urn, instead of being outside, will be within the enclosure. Then one could perhaps simply put a great wall all around, and then the gardens. Between the enclosure wall and the building we are going to make now, to have the gardens and the urn. And that wall will have one entrance. One, or several ordinary doors. People could walk around the gardens.
One should fulfil certain conditions in order to have the right to descend into the tunnel and emerge in the temple… That must be a little like an initiation, not just ‘like that’, no matter how…
To Roger, I said, ‘We will see in twenty years’ – so, that kept him calm!
But the first idea was to surround it with water, to make an island so that one would have to cross the water to be able to reach the temple – it is quite possible to make an island…
17 January, 1970
What did you want to say to me?
I have received a visit from Paolo and Nata. There are two things. But first there is the plan of this Centre, – more precisely, of the outside of this Centre.
The outside – I have seen nothing. There is a sketch, it is a sketch by Udar…I did not see anything at all and I am open to all suggestions…and then?
He explained to me something which I found very beautiful, which I wanted to submit to you… When you had spoken of this Centre, in fact for the outside you said, ‘I don’t know if the walls will be at an angle, or if it is the roof which will be at an angle.’ You seemed to hesitate, so Paolo says that he received something like an inspiration, and that he has seen something very like a great shell, of which part was emerging from the surface, and another part would be buried in the earth. And he has drawn a sort of outline which he would like to show to you.
Have they seen Roger also because Roger had two ideas, he came to see me with two ideas, and I told him which of the two I preferred but nothing is decided yet. And Roger is to make a sketch of his idea. So I am going to see what Paolo says and then I will tell you Roger’s idea.
(The disciple unrolls the plans)
So you see, here is the outside, which would be simply like a shell. The inside is exactly as you have seen it: this great bare carpet, and then the ball at the centre. And what has given Paolo his inspiration was that you said one would go underground and re-emerge. So he had the idea of going deeply down, to make a spiral staircase here, which would rise again, and on arriving here, there would be a kind of series of stairs, which would come out in the temple itself. So, all the lower part would be in black marble, and all the upper part very simply in white marble. And the whole thing is like a great bud, you see, as if it was growing up from the ground.
Are you sure that he has not seen Roger? Because Roger told me, ‘I want to make a great circle; the interior is exactly a semi-circle, and the other semi-circle would be underground’. He used almost the same words.
Because Paolo told him his idea.
Ah! Paolo told him! Ah, that’s it.
It is like a bud that comes out of the earth.
Yes, yes, that was the first idea that Roger told me, almost identically the same words. And the, his second idea was a pyramid. But I had also thought of a pyramid, and I told him, ‘I thought of a pyramid…’ But he said that he would make both plans and that then we would see. But if that agrees with Paolo’s idea it is very good.
But Roger’s idea, in fact, is Paolo’s idea.
Yes, that’s it.
So, when one arrives at the top of the ‘stalk’ there is a whole series of stairs in all directions, so that one can come out of the temple on any side…and the centre is absolutely bare, and all around there is a kind of gallery, through which one comes out, that is where all these stairways come to. And all will be bare. There will be simply this huge carpet which will be held from corner to corner by these galleries. It will seem as if suspended. All white, all a whole. And there was the question of the twelve columns. Paolo said that he felt that the columns were another ancient symbol which did not go well with the shell, and he said: In place of the twelve columns, one could put symbolically twelve supports, twelve bases of columns, which would act as backrests.
Oh! But the columns have a use, because it is at the top of the columns that the spotlights will be placed which will send the light onto the Centre. There will be light night and day; for the day, openings will be arranged, but as soon as the sun is gone the spotlights will be lit and they will be fixed to the twelve columns and converge onto the Centre.
But, Sweet Mother, if the columns are only useful for the spotlights, they could also be fixed to the walls.
The columns are not near to the wall. The columns are here, exactly half-way between the Centre and the wall.
Because he saw this space at the centre all bare, with just the symbols in the middle and this great carpet all whole, without being broken up by columns. But instead to put like big blocks, twelve big blocks which would indicate the position of the columns and which would serve at the same time as supports.
That has no meaning.
Symbolic meaning? Because you spoke much of the pillars as a support also to the people who would like to sit down.
Oh! For their backs.
So he said that these twelve blocks could be, for example, each one in a different material, like a symbol: twelve different materials.
I saw columns, myself.
On the outer walls the general ventilation will be arranged, which will be electric (no windows), and then on the columns there were the lights…I saw columns, I can’t say. I clearly saw columns.
Oh well, I will tell him that.
As for the gallery all around, I don’t know if I like that much…I did not see it, I saw the walls completely bare, without windows and then the columns, and then the Centre. Of that I am sure because I have seen it and I have seen it for a long time.
Does the shell shape suit you?
That means that it makes a perfect circle: half above, half below…that may do. Only an arrangement must be made for the sun.
Yes, Nata understands very well the question of lighting by prisms – because if one wants to catch a ray of sun, one must use prisms. He says he will solve the problems very easily, he will take care of it. Simply, one puts prisms at a certain number of places, which will capture just a ray of sun.
It must be one ray. What I have seen, one saw one ray.
That’s it. With a prism one sees the ray. So there will be a certain number of geometrical openings according to the movement of the sun… But inside, on the inner walls, the twelve facets will be reproduced.
And this, in theory, [The disciple points to the circular gallery] these were the entrances by which one came out of the tunnel.
I am not sure if it is good to multiply the entries like that. There will be a practical problem to solve: if there is one single entrance and there is a very strict surveillance at that entrance, it is all right, but if there are several entrances, and there is not enough light, there will be catastrophes.
No, no Sweet Mother, there will be only one entrance from the outside, but one comes out at the base of the shell, there will be this multiplicity of entries. No, outside there is only one descent, which comes out here, at the foot of this spiral staircase.
He had thought of this gallery all around because he said that would make this central carpet stand out more, all white; it would seem as if floating, detached, instead of being stuck against the wall.
I did not think ‘stuck against the wall’; there was always a passage around the wall.
So it is this passage, with a certain number of bridges. And it was also this idea of bareness which has made him take away the columns.
What I don’t like is the idea of these bridges, because the walls were quite straight, from top to bottom in white marble.
Ah! but the gallery is not high, it is about 30cm above the floor.
Yes, that, that’s all right.
And then he was saying that on that gallery, or rather that border that marks off the passage around, the carpet could come to the angle, cover the angle.
Yes, that’s all right.
Well, good. It is necessary for them to come to an understanding. But it must be half done because Roger spoke to me of this idea. If I had known that it was Paolo’s idea, I would have said yes right away. But it will be arranged. It is going well.
Then I will tell him to work on this basis…the only question to be decided is the outside: should one leave a space around the shell so that the descent can be clearly seen? Otherwise if it is all filled up, it will simply look like a hemisphere resting on the earth. So that one understands properly the descent of this shell beneath the ground he thought of making an opening all around.
I don’t know. I tell you, I have seen nothing for the outside, so I don’t know. But it would be dangerous, one could fall.
Or perhaps one could make a sort of moat with water all around, transparent water which would show the descent of the shell, for example?
Yes, yes, that might be good.
There is also a question of measurement. According to the plan, you have given 24 metres – twelve metres from each side to the globe. But can we keep a little extra distance on each side for the passage? The plan shows 24 metres in diameter and 15m 20cm for the height.
He asks if the proportion can change? To keep 24m for the base of the carpet, but with the possibility, for example, of keeping 2 or 3 metres on each side for free movement.
Then where would the walls come?
They would be there.
(The disciple points to the outside of the circular passage)
It is the wall which must be at 24 metres.
He says that if there are to be these passages 24 metres would be a little short.
And the height is also in question.
The question exactly was that it should make a perfect circle.
If it makes a perfect circle, then the height will make the radius of the distance between the two walls.
The thing that would really give me pleasure would be if they both came to an agreement and both present me a project at the same time. Like that it would be easy to carry out…. Hasn’t Roger adopted Paolo’s ideas, why don’t they both together see how to carry it out?
Yes, that would simplify things.
Oh, very much.
What will happen under there…
(The Mother indicates the underground part of the shell)
All that is mental, but when you are going to have a big basement, all black, what is going to happen there? What is going to happen? Lots of unmentionable things, Humanity is not transformed, one should not forget it. And there will be all kinds of people who will come…. Even if there is a control at the entrance you can’t prevent people going to see, so then what is going to happen under there? It was my objection when Roger told me, ‘We could make wonderful underground passages!’ I said to him, ‘That’s all very well, and who will control what happens under there?’
I thought it was your idea, the descent?
My idea was quite a short descent, which came out there.
(The Mother points to the single opening of the original plan)
Quite a short descent, not a great tunnel like that. But it is possible, it is a question of control, that’s all. Only there is a big difference between a tunnel where there is space for two lines of people, (one going up and one going down) which comes out there, and an enormous tunnel like this one – there is a big difference! And now he adds to it, that it will be all black!
In black marble, yes.
Yes, then? That means that one will not see very well in there. Then what is going to happen in there?
These underground parts are not in the form of tunnels. It is a spiral staircase, and when you arrive at the top of the staircase, it branches into a series of stairways in the open, suspended like bridges. It is not enclosed, it is all floating.
There will be no accidents? Ah! there are people ready and waiting with hallucinations who will break their heads on the floor. You know, it’s a bit too mental for my taste – that means that from the mental point of view it is very attractive, but when one sees…
The idea was above all the collective building of this underground, like a symbol…
(The Mother laughs)
In any case they must get together. And then I will see. I would like to be able to have them both together with their papers. Then that would be very good….
Because he doesn’t tell me it is the other’s idea – he presents it as if it were his own (!) and then the other doesn’t tell me that he has spoken to the first one!…
But he hasn’t had the opportunity to tell you.
No, but you said it because I mentioned it to you…. But I…I know. And so, you know, one works for the ‘unification of humanity’, and the workers cannot get along!
And I see clearly, I see clearly what in each one is like this:
(A gesture of something twisted)
It is not that I am surprised, but… My reasoning goes like this: ‘Yes, it is all very good, you are very nice, you work for human unity – at least be united!’… You understand?
But I am certain that Paolo only wants to come to an understanding with Roger.
But you can well understand that if Roger took Paolo’s idea, it means that he admires Paolo’s intelligence, otherwise he wouldn’t have taken it. Therefore, why this side like this and that side like that… We don’t want any more of those petty things.
But when Paolo showed me his plan I had the impression that it was something very beautiful…I will tell you what I felt. I felt: I am witnessing the birth of Auroville.
No, it is not true.
The material birth, I mean.
Yes, yes, I understand, but it is not true.
(The Mother enters into a long concentration)
We will let it sort itself out. Because you see, to accept changes, it is necessary that I be certain that the origin of the inspiration is of the same quality as mine… For the building, I know very well that people are needed who know their job and who do the work. But for the inspiration it is necessary that I be certain that the origin of the inspiration be AT LEAST of the same level as mine… And I am not sure, because I saw it so clearly. And immediately with Paolo’s ideas I saw the mixture. His ideas are all mental, I can guarantee it because it is easy for me to see that. Well, they bring all the same MIXTURE that there is in everything that is done in the world. And that…what is the use in beginning again, again, again…?
There is something that disturbs me. Entering from below, that is very good, but that enormous basement?…
(The Mother grimaces)
We shall see. Things must be left to settle, and we will see.
And for underneath, shall we leave this idea of the shell, or is it perhaps to be studied further?
Shell? …the idea was a sphere. Why a shell?
‘Shell’ – well, a round form, a spherical form.
An egg-shell is elongated, it is not spherical. The egg as it is really is a little like a spinning-top – for the upper part would be bigger and the base narrower with only stairs…. That, it is quite possible.
Give me a paper…
(The Mother draws an egg as she explains)
And then, there, down there below, there would be only stairs, like that, yes.
His idea was to reproduce the egg of Brahman, you know, the original egg. That the temple would represent the original egg.
But what is it like, the egg of Brahman?
I don’t know…like an egg, I think!
An egg with a base which is narrower than the summit. So if one conceives an egg like that [the Mother draws] and then at the base there is a staircase, and the spiral staircase comes as far as the temple. For example, seven…
Seven instead of twelve.
And here [the Mother draws the central part of the ‘egg’] it is 24 metres and only 15m 50cm in height. Then like that it is correct.
24 metres for the total width or for the carpet?
No, it must have straight walls, the walls cannot be curved, I saw them straight.
Straight, and which go up into a curve.
According to what I had seen, the columns were higher than the walls, and that is why the roof was at an angle. And then it was on the columns that the electric light was positioned.
And the widest point of the egg would be here [The Mother draws a line at the level of the carpet].
At ground level.
And you said seven openings?
Seven stairs. And then an underground passage which leads to the base of the egg from where the seven stairs start. That is possible.
In fact the inner walls of the temple ought to be straight.
That is to say that one can for the outside, for the appearance, make them round. But inside, the wall must be straight.
The wall straight, and a dome over the straight wall.
Yes, a dome over the straight wall. But the dome can be the dome of the egg, and I had thought that the place where the dome comes to join the walls would be on the columns. Twelve columns. And here, for the outside, they can continue their wall in a rounded form like that. [The Mother draws.]
There would even be this possibility – to have a space between the outermost wall and the inner wall. To make a space. That is to be seen.
That means in addition to the 24 metres.
Yes, that is understood. The 24 metres end at the walls.
And the openings for the seven stairs?
I would like it better if they were outside the wall.
Yes, that would be better, because that would give more space in the centre.
Oh! Yes, and the interior would be much neater. To see all these stairs would not please me. Even one stairway, I did not like it, but seven…
So a passage outside.
The passage outside.
Yes, like in India when one goes around the temple.
Yes, that, that is good.
And the seven staircases start directly from the base of the shell, without this ‘stalk’ which comes up from the bottom?
That is however they want it. Below, I don’t mind. If they want it to be a staircase like that or a staircase…. So long as it is not too steep.
What else have you?
There is the second part of the problem.
Ah! What is it?
Nata and Paolo have realized that if one leaves Auroville, or the building of this Centre, to the people of Auroville, as distinct from the Ashram, it will never work. There will never be the true force, the people who are there are not receptive enough to do the work. If there is this division between the Ashram and Auroville, we will never get there, they will make another ‘fabrication’ but not something true. According to them, the only hope is that really this Centre should be built not by Aurovilians, but by all the people of the Ashram, without a distinction between Aurovilians and non-Aurovilians: that the whole force unites in the construction of this Centre – not to abandon the Aurovilians to an external separation…. Just as all the disciples have built ‘Golconde’ in the same way all the disciples should build the Centre of Auroville, without outside labour.
At Golconde there was outside labour.
Anyway, limiting as much as possible the outside element, so that it is a work of consecration. Otherwise, says Nata, the people of Auroville are all full of arrogance, of incomprehension, they see the outside of things. It is necessary that there should mix with that the force of the people from here. And if the people of the Ashram do not come to infuse the force, nothing will be achieved…. At the present moment, Paolo told me, Auroville, such as it seems from the outside, looks like a necropolis. [The Mother laughs.] It is the ‘living’ fruit of egoism. The only thing which can save it, is that the people of the Ashram go in there and do the work and that the others be absorbed in it – otherwise.
(After a long silence)
But at the Ashram, we have three centres which do construction: there is Phoni, who looks after the maintenance, Abhay Singh and Udar…Abhay Singh is not equipped for that, and then he is too busy because he hasn’t only construction work, there are all the automobiles, and then the lands. I feel that now he is fully occupied and he does his work well. If we gave him too much he couldn’t do it well any longer. Udar is very interested. He even said that he would arrange for the white marble; he would go to get it and choose it himself… But this would not be better.
But that was not what he meant. He was not speaking at all of a problem of construction, he spoke of the question that the disciples work with the Aurovilians. …Nata, as an engineer, and with the money collected will do the construction, but all the labour should be provided by the people of the Ashram as a whole, who should mix with the Aurovilians. That is the idea.
It is not possible. All the people of the Ashram who are of working age are all working, they have all got their work.
He saw a kind of rotation, each one giving, for example, an hour a day, or one day a week. Because otherwise…
They would ask for nothing better! They would take it as an extraordinary amusement. I have more trouble to prevent them from dispersing themselves than I would have difficulty to make them do something. That would be an amusement for them.
Because he says that if there is not the inner force of the people of the Ashram who mix with those of Auroville, those from Auroville will remain what they are. There is a split between Auroville and the Ashram.
I don’t find that it is sufficient.
I don’t find it sufficient. It is not at all on the same level. The people here…
All you have to do is imagine what it would be if I were gone.
Just imagine that and you will see, you will see immediately what would happen.
Well, it is the only hope.
If they came and said: It is necessary for YOU to take the responsibility. Ah! I would say, ’In that they are right’, it is entirely different.
They have kept to one side. That is not it.
But, Sweet Mother, I think that is what they mean to say, isn’t it so?
(The Mother laughs)
They do not think clearly! It is confused thinking!
When they say that all the Ashram disciples should join in the construction of Auroville, as they did in Golconde, they mean that it is you who gives the impulsion to all the disciples to go and participate in the work. That is the idea. But you say that on the contrary a separation is needed – no mixing.
If you knew the things as they are!… The people from Auroville bring drugs here and…all sorts of things.
Yes, yes, I know – I know, sweet Mother. That is why he says that it is the only hope.
That they go there and catch all sorts of things!
He says, ‘Otherwise there is no hope.’
Oh no, he doesn’t know! It is all in the mind, it is all mental. They do not know. Who is there who knows? It is only when one sees. There is not one who sees.
All thoughts, thoughts, thoughts…it is not thoughts that build.
The people in Auroville can do the work?
I am in the process of working, working [Kneading gesture] to gather the energies that can do it. And there must be a sorting out process there.
But, you understand, they talk about physical work, and for physical work there are only the young people who are in the School – all the Ashramites have become old, my child! They are all old. There are only the young people of the School. And the young people who are at the School are not here to become Ashramites: they are here for their education – it is for them to choose… There are many, many who want to go to Auroville. Then it would be the Ashram education that would go to Auroville – there are many. But…give me some names, who can go there and work with his hands?
But, Sweet Mother, the only way is if YOU say so; then tomorrow, I would go spend two hours in Auroville collecting ‘baskets’! [Of rubble.]
[The Mother laughs] My child, you are one of the youngest… Can you see me telling Nolini: go to work.
But that would draw all the others… In any case, it was Nata’s and Paolo’s idea.
[The Mother laughs] Poor Nolini!
If you knew all the letters I receive from so-called Aurovilians who say: ‘Oh, I want to be in peace finally. I want to come to the Ashram, I don’t want to be an Aurovilian any more…’ There. It is just the contrary: ‘I want peace.’ Voila.
But you know, I do not believe in external decisions. I believe simply in one thing: the force of the Consciousness that makes a PRESSURE like this [crushing gesture]. And the Pressure is increasing…. Which means that it will sort out the people.
Otherwise it will be issueless, because before (just ten years ago), I would come and go, and see… But that is finished. It is not a decision that I have taken. I didn’t think at all that it was finished; it is not at all like that: it is something that OBLIGED me. You understand? So, I said all right. It is not an incapacity; this body is extremely docile, it does everything that one asks of it. If one asks it to go out, it arranges things so that it can go out. It is extremely docile. But it is like this, there is an Order. NO. And I know why…
You know, I believe only in that: the pressure of the Consciousness. All the rest, they are things men do; they do it more or less well, and then it lives, and then it dies, and then it changes, and then it becomes deformed, and then… – everything that they have done. It is not worth it. The power of execution must come from above, like that, imperative [gesture of descent]
And so, for that, [the Mother points to her forehead] this must be quiet. Not to say, ‘Oh this must not be, oh! That must not be, oh! We should do this….’ Peace – peace – peace, He knows better than you what is necessary. There.
So, since there are not many who can understand, I say nothing: I watch and I wait.
I LOOK… Isn’t that so, someone gives me a paper as you have just done when you gave me that drawing; I look in this way and I see very well what in that paper is the result of something from above and what has become mixed and what is… Like that. But one is not going to say it! – to begin with, they would not believe me.
I understand very well – very well – why Sri Aurobindo did not say ‘superman’, why he said supramental. He didn’t say superman because he didn’t want it to be ‘a man who could perfect himself’. It is not that. He said supramental because… He said: leave all of that.
Supramental – SUPRA, you understand?
In these last days I have seen the photographs of those people who have gone to the moon… Have you seen them? Have you seen the way they are decked out?
Yes, I have seen them.
Well, they have become machines.
That is it; robots.
Yes, then, [laughing] the Russians said: why not send robots, it is not worth it!
Nata has spent all his time saying as many bad things about Roger as he could, saying that all his plans are bad and that his work cannot succeed. Roger has spent his time saying: ‘Nata has ruined all my work!’ And another says, ‘That one…’ and this one says, ‘this one…’ And they are all like that! So, I see with absolute certainty that IF the work is meant to be done, FIRST they must overcome this little human pettiness. They ‘see’, they have ‘ideas’ (they all have many ideas), they have ideas…then: ‘Oh! that is worthless, my idea is good….’ They are like that! And all my action is like this: a PRESSURE on them to make their little ‘person’ abdicate. While that does not abdicate, the work CANNOT be done.
And they look in effect for all sorts of reasons for not seeing the true one.
It is necessary that…ouf! a bit of air.
The body – this body – is in the process of receiving a discipline, you know, oh! terrible… But it does not complain, it is happy, it asks for it. And it SEES to what an extent one is full of MANY LITTLE THINGS which are always………the Force. Well, one must start by getting rid of that. One has to be like this [gesture of abandon, openness] and receive the Force. Then all the inspirations will come, and not only the inspirations but the MEANS to execute them, – and the TRUE Thing. Otherwise…
And since they are not all quite ready, I act like the Consciousness: I put the Pressure and I say nothing – I wait [the Mother laughs].
If you knew everything that is going on, it would amuse you… The agricultural side, it is the same thing; education, the same thing; everywhere it is the same… The international scene, it is the same everywhere, everywhere: Man…Man puffing himself up.
They must FIRST understand: abdicate. Then we will see.
Shall I give them your message?
Oh no, my child! They will become frightened, the poor things!
You think so? It would do them good.
Oh no, no, it would be too much for them. The Pressure, that is the best thing. Because they don’t understand what you think, what you say. They understand only what is in their heads. They change the meaning of the words… As happened with A.R., who took it as a personal attack.
Yes, that’s true! It is true, I have noticed that: they take it as a personal attack.
That’s it. But that is the way it is everywhere, that is the difficulty: the person above all else. Then that spoils everything.
One speaks the truth objectively, as one sees it – it is as if one were attacking them!
One attacks them, yes.
So, one must w-a-i-t until they mature – you understand, one loses a lot of time. It is best not to say anything: just put the Pressure. In that I am merciless [the Mother laughs].
Then what am I to do in the midst of all these people?
You can tell them that… Actually Roger spoke to me (it was the same thing put in different words), and I didn’t say yes or no. I was waiting because I wanted to know how the others were seeing things. Now I have seen, I see that they agree. If they can get together the work would go faster! There. Objections about details are not important because one sets out with one idea and one arrives with another – and one makes a lot of progress between the two. Well, there is no need to discuss the matter, only… Try to put your energies together in order to take off faster, that’s all. [The Mother laughs.]